Privatization of Liquor sales in Pa., who benefits?

                  Govener Corbett is trying force liquor privatization down Pennsylvania throats. His attemots to sell the lottery to a British company, by Attorney General Kathleen Kane has put at least a temporary stop to that. His proposal would remove the state from the sale of liquor and at the same time add funding to education.

                      Supporters of liquor privatization cite several benefits we would see. They say it should be a private business because government cannot run anything without making a mess of it. The sale of liquor stores would boost the states revenue. Corbett is proposing $1 billion toward state education funded mostly through the sale of liquor licenses. Proponents of privatization say you will get better prices and selection. Corbett also states the fact that only Pennsylvania and Utah still control the sale of liquor.

              Opponents of privatization say we will see more incidents of drunken driving and underage drinking. With a 17 year old kid at the register can we really trust them to card everyone or even pay much attention to the cards thry are seeing. They say less selection and higher prices, Washington state shoppers say they have experienced higher prices due to the increased taxes. The LCB makes $2.1 billion in sales a year, $494 million in profits and taxes. They could make more if liquor stores were open on Sundays. Also if privatization occurs 3,000 employees would lose their jobs.

                Niw to be clear the $1 billion would be paid out over 4 years, to me he created the illusion that it would be $1 billion every year for education. Who really benefits here are your large chain stores who have been pouring in a good amount of lobbying money. So I am sure our Governer is seeing some sort of benefit. It just came out that he recieved over $11,000 in illegal benefits. So there is not a question of whether he is corrupt, it is how corrupt is he. It appears the wealthy benefit from liquor privatization.

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14 thoughts on “Privatization of Liquor sales in Pa., who benefits?

  1. Alvert Brooks

    You do realize that the age limit for selling alcohol hasn’t been nor has it been proposed to change. It is still 18 which BTW is the age to work in a state store. However, the age to work in a liquor store is raised to 21 in the current proposal. Washington state added 27% in fees onto what was already the most heavily taxed liquor in the country and their sales still went up. There is nothing like that proposed for PA.
    The PLCB has a captive market which can’t legally shop anywhere else. They don’t have to do anything to have record sales and it shows. In June 2000 there were 692 stores and now there are 600 but there are more employees. Which has increased convenience for the customer, less stores or more employees?
    Unless it is changed the proposal has 800 licenses for stores of 15,000 sqft or larger and 400 licenses for smaller stores and no business entity can own more than 5% statewide.

    Oh, the word is Governor too.

    1. Thank you for correcting my spelling, grammar and spelling are weak issues. First are you going to tell me when they start selling liquor in Wegmans, Turkey Hill they will only let 21 year olds work there. I am sorry but 18 year old kids dont card for cigarettes. Of the 5 closest states we have the lowest prices, also arent we trying to create and keep more jobs. After this 4 year payment of $1 billion to education where will the where will the money go. Also how much money has our corrupt Governor recieved.from private entities. He really took care of Pennsylvanians with the hole Natural Gas Drilling deal, from which he recieved over $1 million dollars while Governor and over $300,000 as Attorney General. So I would venture to guess our wonderful Governor is recueving a good chunk of change. Oh I would also like to remind you of his gerrymandering and poll taxes. Thank you for your comment.

      1. Albert Brooks

        No, I said liquor as to differentiate that from beer/wine. The current law is 18 for any alcoholic beverage so if it gets changed to 21 for liquor that will be some improvement.

        Having lived in 3 of the 5 border states I have to disagree with PA having the lowest prices. With DE not having any sales tax even the PLCB admits that they have lover prices and one only has to go to Joe Canal’s, Roger Wilco or Total Wine across the river in NJ to see what PA is missing in selection and pricing.

        As far as job creation having 1200 stores instead of 600, having multiple storage facilities, needing drivers to deliver more product to more places will cause job creation , If you look at the numbers coldly the entire PLCB is only .07% of the PA workforce.

        The money from taxes and licenses will still be collected the same as it is now from over 20,000 establishments the PLCB licenses now and will go where ever the legislature wants to use it. the same as it does now. The $1B is from the sale of the licenses which is different then the continuance of the licenses and the sale of the inventory (~$200 million).

        The other comments you made don’t have anything to do with this subject. Corbett is the 4th governor to try and do what the people have consistently shown they want done. There has never been a scientific poll showing public support for teh PLCB. NEVER. So personal feelings aside, he is trying to do what the public wants done.

        3200 clerks should not impede the progress of a state of almost 13 million.

      2. That is 3000 well paying jobs being replaced by minimum wage jobs in most cases. The liquor us still delivered by the same companies that deliver it now. I used the unrelated points to illustrate the distrust for this man in this state. As a citizen I have a right to know where they plan to use this money after the 4 years. I have seen nothing truly stating that people want it privatized. You as well as I know they are going to tax the Alchohol once they realize they overshot income estimates. When they start selling liquor in your Turkey Hill or Wegmans do you honestly believe the state of Pa. is going to raise the age of people working there to 21. You do have valid points, I just used a pros and cons that I found to illustrate what people were sayimg. Then at the end I added my opinion based upon the actions of Corbett up to now. He does not work for the people as evidenced by his actions and who.he recieves the most money from. Thank you.

  2. Albert Brooks

    No, liquor won’t be delivered by the same companies that deliver it now because now the state has centralized warehousing and after they won’t. Some stores will require more product then is currently being delivered but they will be getting that from more places. Other stores will need smaller amounts, some will be specialty that may only need a van and not a semi.

    In the last year there have been 3 polls, FM3, Franklin & Marshall and Quinnipiac all showing support for privatization. This is true of all other F&M and Quinnipiac polls of 2011 and 2010 and newspaper sponsored or other news organization polls going back at least 40 years. These are all scientific polls not like the on-line ones you see.

    The current proposal and none of the modernization bills have liquor being sold out of convenience stores so your point is moot. I think you are mixing up Liquor licenses with Beer/Wine licenses. The age for selling anything right now is 18, The change will be to 21 for off premise liquor and remain 18 for Beer/Wine.

    While they already have an excise tax on liquor I think you over-estimate the contribution the PLCB gives in non-tax monies. It will not take a very large increase in sales to completely offset that total and that is not counting the license fees the PLCB doesn’t pay, the business taxes the PLCB doesn’t pay, the savings from retirement and not having to pay retirement shortfalls, not having to give the PLCB $110 million interest free loan every year (no matter where it comes from money is not free), reduced healthcare costs etc etc. The PLCB estimates that border bleed alone is over $273 million so just recapturing any percentage of that due to greater convenience/pricing/selection or any combination puts the state ahead even further.

    Actually the Wegman’s near me has a better policy then the state store. Wegman’s cards EVERYBODY so they have an electronic record and the state store doesn’t..

    You don’t know where they use the money now. Besides the allocation to the PSP and the Department of Health the rest of the collected tax and non-tax money the PLCB gets goes to the General Fund. That money isn’t earmarked for any specific function nor has it been since the late 1930’s. It is the same as your income tax, it would be nice if you knew where it went but it isn’t going to happen.

    1. Wegmans does not always card, I can name at least 5 occasions where I wasnt carded. Does Pa. send trucks out to California to pick up wine? They are delivered to warehouses, correct. Obviously you are a strong supporter of privatization, that doesnt change the pros and cons. No matter how much you say the cons still exist. As for you bringing up “scientific polls”, they were almosrt all wrong in last election. In fact I recieved several calls who asked if I supported Romney, when I said no, they hung up. Remember they are
      paid by cont…

      1. someone. I do not think any large company should have a liquor license. I watched 17 year old kids by liquor in Jersey. I know you will have an answer and an excuse. But the fact Corbett is corrupt will influence how people view his proposals. While I admit you have some strong
        points, there are many who hold the other beliefs. Now contrary to what you may believe however weak you make think an arguement is, you cannot dismiss an opinion. Plus facts are facts you have only dismissed facts that dont work for you. I am pretty positive he wont be Governor again. Notice I at no point corrected you on your spelling errors, of which there were a few. People make mistakes, no need to needle. Thank you again. You have brought more views in and all I wanted to do was create discussion.

  3. Albert Brooks

    So you think that there has been a 40+ year conspiracy in polling showing the people don’t want the PLCB? Let us go the other way. The PLCB nor the UFCW have never listed, posted or taken a scientific poll to show that the public supports their position. Doesn’t that seem a little odd that it would be so consistently one sided?

    Here is how the system works. A manufacturer, importer or importing distributor sells the product to the distributor. PA buys from the distributors and has everything shipped to one of 3 warehouses. From there it goes to the stores. Under a privatized market there would not be those 3 consolidated warehouses there would be more smaller ones to have the product closer to the stores. For example. The current warehouse in Scranton sends product all the way to York even though the Philadelphia warehouse is 70 miles closer. A private business wouldn’t do that and they would probably have a warehouse in Harrisburg or use a warehouse they may have in Maryland. The point is they would be more efficient and that helps drive down prices for consumers and creates opportunities for business.

    “I do not think any large company should have a liquor license. I watched 17 year old kids by liquor in Jersey” I don’t have any excuses but I do have some questions.. How large should a company be to have a liquor license? How do you know they were 17? Did you ask or did they tell you?

  4. I asked them sir. I did not say a 40 year conspiracy, I cited examples. Polls are skewed to who pays for them. So the companies will still deliver the liquor. I am sorry friend but I disagree and believe Corbett is getting money from lobbyist for privatization. Your arguements do not change the fact there are pros and cons, despite what yoi believe. Getting angry with me doesnt change my opinion. I enjoy a good debate and do not expect to change anyones mind. I hope you are as passionate about voting violations as you are about this. Corbett is dirty, had the chance to put Sandusky away, but instead allowed him to molest more kids. Just was caught recieving $11,000 in improper benefits. To your point as to why the LCB didnt run polls, why waste the money. That is not there jobs. Size I am not sure, but alot of kids work in grocery stores. Just saying. Thank you.

  5. Albert Brooks

    You seem to be missing the point that the state won’t have contracted delivery from central warehouses. It will probably be the same to get to the distributors but we aren’t talking about that. We are talking about delivery inside the state.

    Sounds like you got surveyed and not polled, I had the same happen here for both sides. In any case for those of us that follow this subject a bit more closely, on both sides, it is a given that the polls have never shown the people in favor of the PLCB.

    I don’t know of any voting violations in Pennsylvania so I can safely say I don’t have an opinion.

  6. This is an issue that I thought was interesting, I did my research and wrote. The simple undeniable fact is that there are pros and cons about everything, to deny that is assinine. I feel comfortable in saying that I did what I set out to do. I try to follow bigger issues, being that this is a niche issue. One issue voters tend to slide to the Right.
    I live in an area where this is apperently not a big issue, I have not seen much if anything on this issue in my local papers. I also realize that regardless of what facts I would present you would dispute them, that is fine. But if this is your largest focus I believe your passion is misplaced. There are many larger issues facing us today that deserve due dilligence. Thank you.

    1. Albert Brooks

      I certainly agree with your last sentence and having looked into “voting violations PA” and all the combinations thereof I still don’t see anything that raises any alarms. The same with “voter fraud” just not enough verified cases to bother with. Perhaps you have an example of what you were trying to point me at or if the wording was different?

      While not the most important change in any given year it has been bubbling since Shapp first made the attempt and gets stronger every time. Change is hard and sometimes uncomfortable but it is inevitable I’m just trying to speed it up.

      I’m pretty much an independent trying to vote for whom I think will do the best regardless of party. My Great-Grandfather told me a long time ago the most dangerous people in America are the ones who pull the party lever because it shows they didn’t think and people who don’t think can be easily fooled.

      1. There were several cases in Northeastern Pa. alone of votes being changed from Romney to Obama, Republican poll workers telling people if they didnt have IDs they couldnt vote. Which was of course false. This is just to name a few. Your Great-Grandfather was a smart man. I am liberal, but my main objective is to give my kids a better country than what I recieved. Thank you again.

  7. Albert Brooks

    I did see one report of one machine switching votes one time but I try to look at the big picture. Out of the 120 million votes cast if it happened 10,000 times that is only eight hundred thousandths of one percent.

    For being able to vote I’m not so laid back. I do believe you should not only have ID but a tax return. Even if you didn’t pay anything, just have the return to show you at least attempted to pay for your time here.

    This could go on for some time so I’m going to stop now and perhaps another one of your topics will catch my eye someday. Take care.

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